In this special video episode of the Intrepid English Podcast, Lorraine interviews Dr. Amara, an expert in inclusive classrooms and workplaces. Dr. Amara shares her journey, inspired by Maya Angelou, to become a public speaker and advocate for inclusive environments. She discusses her research in Germany on supporting pre-service teachers and her current focus on leadership development and inclusive workplaces. Dr. Amara emphasizes the importance of self-awareness and cultural sensitivity in leadership. She also highlights the need for conflict management workshops and team agreements to foster inclusive work environments. Dr. Amara is launching a consultancy, Ignite to Transform, to help leaders and teams improve their inclusivity and effectiveness.
Learn more about Dr. Amara and connect with her on her social media pages.
Also, learn more about Intrepid English’s sister company, Jassour (Bridge to Excellence) using the link here.
Transcript
Lorraine Venables 00:00
Hi everyone. Today I’m welcoming a friend of mine, a wonderful, inspiring woman, who I’m really delighted to introduce you to. I met her a few years ago now via LinkedIn, and ever since then, I’ve been massively inspired by her work, and I knew that as soon as I got back into making webinars and videos again, she’d be the first person that I invited on, and here we are. So without further ado, let me introduce you to Dr Amara.
Amara 00:36
Hello.
Lorraine Venables 00:40
Welcome! So, Amara, let me introduce you. You are a very accomplished woman in the field of education and facilitation, and you are an expert in inclusive classrooms, inclusive environments. And I’m really delighted to have you to ask you so many questions about your life, your career, and the lessons that you’ve learned. So welcome and thank you so much for being here.
Amara 01:08
It’s good to be here. Lorraine, thank you so much for the invitation. Thank you.
Lorraine Venables 01:12
Let’s set some context here, your origin story. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your early life?
Amara 01:19
Yeah, when I was, I think about nine years old or so, about nine years old. Yes, I remember someone asking me, Amara, what do you want to be when you grow up? And I knew exactly what I wanted to do. I wanted to travel around the world and speak 10 different languages. But then when I went to college, many years after, obviously, I remember seeing Dr Maya Angelou on stage, and when I heard her speak, it was just like such an aha moment for me. And I thought to myself, oh my goodness, look at this wonderful, beautiful, eloquent woman. I want to be just like that. Yeah, I just wanted to be able to speak in public and, of course, travel around the world and speak different languages. And I got a chance to do that after college. I got a chance to teach in Japan, and that’s kind of where my life as a facilitator, public speaker, advocate for inclusive workplaces, inclusive classrooms, came to be. So, yeah, that’s kind of how it all started.
Lorraine Venables 02:25
Amazing. Yes, when you told me that you had been in the same room as Maya Angelou… Incredible. So of course, that must have been a really pivotal moment in your life, and now it’s inspired you to stand on stages and inspire younger people to move in their own way and move in their own direction, whilst also being as inclusive as possible. Another thing that you and I have in common is that we’ve both lived in Germany. What was your experience there? You were studying there, weren’t you?
Amara 02:59
Yeah, I was. I was working on my doctorate at the time. Yeah. So it was a very interesting experience. First of all, I absolutely love Germany, and even more, Heidelberg. My research work back then was really focused on supporting pre-service teachers and creating a more inclusive learning experience for, you know, the students a lot of times. I mean, in Germany as it is, it’s a lot of children who are coming from a different cultural background, or, we say, from a migration background. What was really important was, how do we ensure that teachers are more equitable and more inclusive in the way they teach, so that they are really giving each student equal access to the best possible education, and the biases do not come into that equation. So that was kind of what my research was about. How do we support teachers to be more aware, to teach consciously in the classroom?
Lorraine Venables 03:54
And nowadays that’s brought through to your career now as a facilitator.
Amara 03:57
Yeah, still using the same principles around inclusivity, ensuring that, yeah, that in the workplace, that, again, people who work, especially leaders, that they do work consciously. So for me, what’s, I guess, the theme, the underlying theme, is that sense of awareness. How aware are we of our positionality, of our power, the way we speak and engage with people? How do we make people feel the same things that people feel in the classroom can translate to the workplace as well? So as a teacher, you want to ensure that your students feel comfortable, that you also feel supported, that you feel seen and valued. And the same needs are present in the workplace, where staff members or team members also want to feel seen, also want to feel the good part of something big. Also want to feel that they contribute to a bigger vision, or at least to contribute to whatever strategic ambitions there are in the workplace. So yeah, I definitely see some connections there. Yeah, I think when we look at the workplace and we look at the classroom, we are still seeing similar dynamics, right? You have the teacher who’s a leader in the classroom, and then you have the classmates working together in different projects and supporting one another, hopefully supporting one another, to ensure that they all have a good learning experience throughout the school experience. The same thing happens in the workplace, where you have the line manager or the senior manager, whoever, and they’re always, usually managing a team. And again, the team, they’re working together individually, and also as a group creating, hopefully, a good experience, so that they’re able to attain whatever strategic goals have been set at the beginning of the year. And so for me, what has kind of gone through, or the over overarching theme, is this aspect of awareness. And so in my research work, it was really about, how do we raise awareness of teachers? Because a lot of times, if you’re not very self aware, it’s very easy to make mistakes. It’s easy to overlook your power, your positionality, and you may think, Oh, I’m a very nice person and I smile a lot, and maybe people may not perceive you that way. And so when we raise our awareness, our consciousness, in the way we engage with people, especially in the classroom or in the workplace, it really makes a huge difference in how people feel. And ultimately, we’re looking at, you know, how can we bring the best out of people? If people feel a bit dominated or subjugated or not seen, not heard, they’re likely to not perform their best. And the same thing, if you’re in a classroom and you have a teacher who’s really mean and doesn’t really care or you don’t feel they care about you, you may do well as a result of duress, but your experience itself may not be optimal. So for me, the takeaway has been, how do we include that sense of awareness, consciousness in the workplace? And how do we include these kinds of behaviors so the workplace is inclusive, or that staff members do come with their best selves, they feel that they can be authentic and do their best work. So it’s interesting to see how that is connected, you know, using that from the lens of inclusion, lens of awareness, how that really makes an impact in raising inclusivity in the workplace.
Lorraine Venables 07:20
That’s so fascinating. Yeah, as teachers, we have a huge responsibility to see and give a voice to people in our classrooms, absolutely. And as leaders, equally. Unfortunately, there are so many bad leaders out there, and there are so many bad teachers out there who believe that it’s all about them when really, they’re not the hero in the story, or they’re the guide. They should be the guide, and it’s about the people within their teams, within the classrooms, really, and their success. I’ve been a teacher for 14 years, but I’ve never heard it said in the way that you’ve just said it there. Of course, that rings true so so much. Yeah, people might do well, but maybe just under duress, but actually by providing them the space and the environment to learn, then that’s when they’re going to do their best. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, that’s so interesting. I love talking to you. I always learn something.
Amara 08:19
Yeah, I think that’s the goal. The goal is, I mean, even in the workplace, you can have a manager who’s, like, super harsh. And, you know, you know, these managers are so scary. I know people have had line managers who are just really tough, just wearing a very tough facade. And, you know, and that causes a lot of fear. They do a good job. I mean, they do their work wonderfully, you know, but you have that pressure. You’re not really at ease. And it’s not, I mean, if you’re going to be spending eight hours a day having that pressure on you, is not optimal. It’s not the best. And this is where, like, chronic illness could even come in. Like, people start taking sick leave because they feel like, you know, sometimes you’re overwhelmed, and then they get burnt out. So again, when we bring that feeling of self awareness from the person the teacher or the line manager or senior manager, whoever, if they’re able to bring that sense of awareness, sense of understanding their positionality, their power, doing their best to show that they’re there to help and teachers should help students feel like they’re there for them, to support them, to succeed. And likewise, in the workplace, whether it’s the line manager, the senior manager, anyone that’s in charge of a group of people, supporting them, they should be able to communicate that to help them understand that they’re there to support them, to help them succeed. Because when people feel connected in that sense, they do optimal work, they do it happily.
Lorraine Venables 09:46
It takes a lot of effort to create an inclusive, connected workplace where people do do their best work, and all it takes is a stressful period of time where that, you know, carefully built environment kind of collapses under the pressure of a very stressful situation, maybe one project, or maybe a period of time where, you know, various factors have caused there to be a lot of stress in the workplace. It’s very easy to break that down, and it takes a lot of work to build that back up again, but it is absolutely worth doing, because then people do their best work in the team, then people feel supported, then people support in return, you know, and it becomes a sort of symbiotic relationship in that sense, I think. And I do really believe that a lot of leaders find themselves in the position where they don’t know how it’s turned into a ruling by fear situation, they don’t really understand how it’s become like that, because they did put a lot of work into developing this nice, inclusive workspace. So I think that having the self awareness and being able to kind of have the, in my opinion, open and honest communication that enables people to go like, let’s just reset. Let’s recognize that things have got a little bit tense and that, let’s try to work, work towards a more inclusive environment together. I think that’s really hard to do. It’s very easy to say that, and much harder to do it. I know that navigating conflict is something that you have a lot of experience with. Do you have any advice for leaders who are finding themselves in a position where they really need to address issues within their team and resolve conflict together?
Amara 11:39
One thing I like to propose for teams in general, is to have something that’s called a team agreement or team charter, and the idea is to outline certain behaviors and ways of working that people all be aligned on. So for example, if you’re a team leader, you want to be able to put this together so that people who are working with you have a clear understanding of your expectations, right? You want to set expectations, as well as expectations around how you work with one another, so how people work together. Conflict management is the reality. Okay, you may say something, and maybe you’re like, maybe stressed out, or whatever reason, maybe you’re not even feeling well, and the way you engage with me could trigger me. And then the next it’s go fight. So it’s extremely important that these topics are addressed. And if a staff member is having issues, like when the conflict was ongoing in the team, what would be very helpful is that the manager has a good understanding of what the problem is, and then to talk to individual stakeholders in that situation. But what’s even better is if a kind of a workshop was held to understand each other. So if we can understand our conflict management style, that gives people an insight on how to behave, right? So some people have a tendency to, you know, call them turtles. They kind of, when they’re in the face of conflict, they kind of hide. They don’t really speak, you know, they kind of absorb and just accept and just continue on. And then you have people who are the sharks. They will tell you, yeah, just the way to go. And they will tell you how they feel. And if people don’t know the different conflict management styles that can lead to a lot of problems, because the workplace is a place where you’re constantly engaging and working together. So one thing I was certainly an advocate for is to have a workshop around how staff members work together, and also to identify, the people who are in the team, to identify their conflict management style. How do they deal with conflict when things come up? What’s their natural tendency, or how do they react? And then, how can they counter that? Right? So there’s different ways in which, I mean, there are different kinds of conflict management styles. It will be important for a team member to help the staff understand and get, maybe even raise their awareness about how they react to conflict. And by doing that, you raise awareness so that when things would come up, people know how best to work with one another.
Lorraine Venables 14:15
There are so many factors that go into… I mean, you’re discussing there, on a personal level, different people’s approach to dealing with conflict, but there are so many other factors as well, cultural factors, gender, you know, there’s so many things that it can be such a messy situation, can’t it? And then you put into the mix the emotions and that, you know, makes it even more complicated as well. Within the different cultures that I’ve lived, there are many different conflict styles or communication styles, depending on the culture, on so many other factors as well, and being able to calmly discuss the situation in a way that makes people feel seen and heard, and then that allows them the space to to communicate rather than react to things I think is so, so important. I think everyone should, everyone should attend a workshop like that, because this is, unfortunately not something that we learn in school, at least from the UK education system, these fundamental things that really would help you as a human. Never mind in the workplace, we don’t actually learn that in school.
Amara 15:31
I mean, conflict is just when you’re not in alignment with somebody’s ideology, you can have conflict that way, right? And then, of course, there are different levels, and I like what you said there about culture, because that’s also another major source of conflict. And what’s really helpful, especially with us living in a very globalized world where we are having teams from different countries and multicultural teams, I would say, I think it’s very important that people are also aware of the different cultures and cultural norms that could potentially play in the way people engage in the workplace. And if someone were to really live in a different country, or have to deploy to a different country for whatever reason, it would also be important for that person to do the homework, right? A lot of times, we find people not really doing the homework and preparing, you know, for the international job that they’ve gotten, so that they don’t go there making serious mistakes that could cause a lot of unwanted consequences. I mean, I remember when I went to Japan, I was reading all about Japan, like the cultural norms. I mean, they’re not coming out hugging you like, You know what I mean? It’s completely different. There’s no kissing, kissing the French ‘bizou’ doesn’t exist there. So it’s kind of a bit reserved. So when you go to a country like that, you kind of have to understand what the cultural norms are, so you’re not making mistakes. Yeah, I just want to highlight that, because I think that’s also very important as a way of mitigating conflict. Another one is the eyes. And, you know, you can’t look, if you’re coming from an African background like I am, it’s disrespectful if you look people in the eyes. But if you’re coming from the US like, you know, with my own experience in the US, like you have to speak to talk to people like I otherwise they think you’re kind of lying or dishonest, so it’s knowing the nuance, right? Yeah,
Lorraine Venables 17:26
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I live in Saudi Arabia. You’re not supposed to maintain eye contact, especially not with men. There are so many things you need to know before you get to a country, but the gray area of what if you’re doing business with people from a particular country, and you are doing a lot of your communication online, through emails, through online meetings and things like that. How do you behave then? And I’m really glad that you mentioned there, in a more globalized world, in Saudi Arabia, where I’m living now, it is opening up rapidly, and people are starting to consider this a destination for business, for travel, tourism, even, in a way that I haven’t seen before. Over on another channel (@JassourBtE), I’m talking a little bit about what it’s like from my experience being a Western woman living in Saudi Arabia, and the things that I’ve learned in order to help other women who are coming over here to acculturate, to fit in, to not offend anybody, and in order to gain professional respect in a very culturally aware way. So yeah, I think these things are, are definitely, are really worth talking about, and I’m really glad that you touched on that. So now you’re living in Rotterdam, right? Yeah. What’s that culture like? Because you’ve been there for a while now, have you?
Amara 18:52
Yeah about two, almost two years now, yeah, it’s amazing. I love it here. I think the Dutchies are very open minded, have been very kind as well. People are really nice. I love Europe. I’ve been living in Europe for over 10 years, and it’s just a nice culture. And of course, Watson is absolutely beautiful. Kind of reminds me of San Francisco a little bit because of the weather, it’s always rainy, foggy, cold, and it has like the San Francisco vibes, but, yeah, I love it here absolutely.
Lorraine Venables 19:27
When I accepted the job in Saudi Arabia, I didn’t see much information that was really relevant to me online. I did quite a lot of research, and I didn’t really find what I was looking for, and that’s why I am trying to share my experience a little bit. And I think that this is often the case for women in business, guys tend to have a more structured mentorship system, where they very much have it either within the organization that they work or through their university, they tend to have a mentor kind of, or community, and that’s not something that we tend to have that much of as women in business. But I find that reaching out to women, getting advice from people who have been there before me or 10 steps ahead of me, they’ve often been super generous with helping me out, giving me a little bit of advice, or pointing me in the right direction towards resources that would be helpful for me as well. Have you ever had a mentor in business, or is that something that you would like to be for somebody else. What’s your view on that?
Amara 20:45
Thanks, Lorraine, yeah. Well, maybe the straight answer is no, I’ve never had the proverbial mentor, so to speak. But I will say that I’ve had mentors through books. For example, I would say that Gary Vaynerchuk has mentored me for many years through his books. Justin Welsh also has mentored me with his work on LinkedIn and just his style. I think that even if we don’t have that mentor or, because having a mentor also requires, it’s a time investment for them, right? And sometimes, if you don’t have that, depending on how lucky you get to meet someone that’s able to really invest the time with you. Otherwise, I think that there are lots of people who write incredible books that you can really salvage a lot of their experience and use that for your own development. And so that’s kind of the route I’ve used, just leveraging on the knowledge of so many great people and using their books and their experiences to kind of guide my own work experience.
Lorraine Venables 21:53
Would you consider being a mentor?
Amara 21:55
Oh, yes, absolutely. Why not? I’d love to share my knowledge and my experience to whomever, absolutely, yes that would be a privilege.
Lorraine Venables 22:05
I was really lucky that I was able to have a mentor. It was through the early stages of my business, my first business, I think I only had six sessions with – his name’s Mark – and I still speak to him today, and that was like 12 years ago, so I’m really lucky that he was so generous. I think we need more representation of women in business, because the situation is different for us in many cases. And I think that having advice from people who have done it before you is super helpful. Specifically, someone who has maybe had the same experiences come across the same obstacles as you or similar. I think that’s really, really, super helpful. So, yeah, it is a massive time investment for the mentor and the mentee, even though they get a lot from it. But I dread to think where I would be right now if I hadn’t had the help and the generous advice from female entrepreneurs. I’m always keen to help in some way, even if it’s just a small thing here and there, just to help out so you see more women in business, essentially.
Amara 23:15
I agree, and I think that even just knowing how to show up, I think for women, maybe the aspect of confidence, just how do you show up in your business? How do you show up? How do you get clients? How do you, you know, convince or persuade people to buy your product? How do you, yeah, in general, how do you show up? I think that’s a hurdle, and it’s always helpful when you have someone. I do have people that I talk to and that I engage with to say, hey, how are you doing this? Like, you know, I’m asking a lot of people about different things regarding business, about my own business, take advantage of other people’s experience to kind of help me make better decisions. But having a steady mentor, that’s something that I haven’t yet done, but definitely something I would like to do in the near future. It’s helpful. Everyone needs to have a mentor, actually, because then it just saves you a lot of time.
Lorraine Venables 24:10
Everyone’s going through life differently, aren’t they? But sometimes having someone who can make you see actually, it’s not impossible. That’s the most important thing, I think. And these days, we’re so overwhelmed with information, it’s trying to pick out the firstly, the good advice, and then it’s like, in what order should I do things, and in what order is right for me? When I first started my business, Intrepid English, that was 11 and a half years ago, and now I’m starting the second one here in Saudi Arabia. Very different situation, very different setup. You know, this is a subsidiary of a larger organization, so different resources are available to me, and also the world has changed a lot in that time. I’ve learned a lot more, and we now have AI, which is super helpful, if you know what tools to find. But you know, I also think to myself, like on a weekly basis, I think to myself, wow, it’s moved forward so much faster this time, all the resources that I had available to me, in particular, I don’t have to make as many mistakes. Now, you know, in the past, I was like, “Arrrgh” (confused). “I guess this is the way forward..?” And I tried things, some things worked, some things didn’t. This time around, I’ve learned from those mistakes already, and I think that that’s probably why I’ve moved forward more in the last three months than I think I did in the first 6 to 12 months of my first business.
Amara 25:43
You said something beautiful. You talked about how when you started off, trying to figure out, okay, what to do, you made some mistakes, and you were able to change things around and learn from the experience. And I think this aspect of failure is so important, right? I think that’s something that we all experience at some point, and whether it’s in the workplace, in the classroom, or starting a new business, we are just in general, failure adverse, right? We don’t want to fail, but that’s the only way we can move forward. People always say, fail fast and move on. And I think what you just shared there was really beautiful, because you just talked about how, yeah, when the first time around, there’s some areas that you had to fix, maybe some missteps, which is absolutely normal, right? But now you’re starting a new business, you’re able to get things done a bit quicker, you know the ropes now, and that’s the beauty of just learning by doing and and the second time around is always much, much better. Yeah, so it’s nice to see that,
Lorraine Venables 26:40
Yes, ‘failure averse’, definitely. I think everyone has a tendency to avoid failure, especially public failure, right? It’s a natural tendency to avoid that pain and that hurt. But really, I think one thing I’ve learned through being an English teacher is that failure is the opportunity really, if you make a mistake and you learn from that mistake, that’s how you learn, and that’s how you move forward. But it is very difficult to do that, because, yeah, people, you can find this advice online everywhere. Fail fast. Okay, fail fast. That’s good advice if you don’t fail fast again and again and again and again.
Amara 27:27
Fail fast and learn a new one, yeah, absolutely. We don’t want to keep repeating the same mistakes, right? So, yeah, if you fail fast and you learn from your mistakes, then it’s a blessing, actually. But then if you’ve not learned from the mistakes, then it keeps showing up in different ways, and then it’s not so fun.
Lorraine Venables 27:41
Yeah, and that… to just come full circle, there, you only learn how to fail better by doing it so many times. And that’s how you learn to overcome it. So, in a way it is a little bit of a gift. You know, especially these days we live in instant gratification, don’t we? We live in comfort as much as possible. We try and avoid any inconvenience or discomfort as much as possible. And I think that that’s actually just making things harder for us in the long run. We need to choose what type of ‘hard’ we’re going to have, you know, live in comfort, but then eventually, never really get anywhere, or, you know, take the hit and learn from it, and move forward and, you know, feel the discomfort a little bit, but then grow. And it’s that sweet spot there if we keep moving forward and we get used to the cycle of comfort, growth, discomfort, growth. That’s where we need to be, and that’s, I think, what younger people need to learn a little bit more these days.
Amara 28:45
Absolutely, I think that culture of instant gratification is… I mean, it’s kind of somewhat reinforced by the things that we do with social media and so forth. But I think having that understanding of sometimes you just need to just wait a little bit. You just have to persevere. Think outside of the box. Don’t give up so quickly. Do what you can to get to the next step. You know, sometimes it’s also a learning curve. I think these are ways of being that can be very helpful. Sometimes, when we want things so quickly, we’re setting ourselves up for mistakes, and then it’s not a really good experience after. So in my opinion, it’s extremely important to just sometimes wait. Sometimes life is also about being in the moment and when we’re just, you know, wanting instant gratification now, we want the answer. Now. Life is really not like that. Sometimes we just need to take a step and just persevere, just wait, be patient, and absorb the learning. And then, you know, magic happens when we do that.
Lorraine Venables 29:49
Yeah. And then all of a sudden, you know, when we do hit that big adversity in life, we’ve already built up that, you know, resilience,
Amara 29:59
Yeah, because, what are we rushing for? Life is so ephemeral. It’s so ephemeral. Like, it could just be over in a second. Like, I’ve just come to a point in my life where I’m just taking things slowly and just enjoying the moment, you know, enjoying the experience, like right now, just having this time, you know, just really soaking it in it’s important.
Lorraine Venables 30:22
Yeah, I really, I really agree with you. And you know, I think in the kind of environment that we’re in at the minute where, like, the news cycle is just relentless, and in a way, slowing down and not becoming desensitized is a small act of resistance in some way, isn’t it? I think often when there’s huge political unrest, and we are, we do feel bombarded with it, we tend to just switch off and become apathetic. It can be overwhelming so focusing on taking the next step, protecting ourselves, whilst also moving in the right direction a little bit is so important. And, yeah, slowing down, remaining aware whilst also being mindful of our energy. It’s a delicate balance, but I think that that’s something we need to do, really for our own well being. That’s my perspective on that. So I really loved having this conversation with you, Amara, and I know that you’re in a process, at the moment, of setting up your own consultancy so that you can share this wonderful advice with people throughout Europe and hopefully in different places in the world as well, going forward. So what’s next for you?
Amara 31:42
Oooh, what’s next? So, I am starting my own consulting company. It’s called Ignite to transform, and the goal is really to… because over the years, over 20 years, I’ve worked in the humanitarian sector and also in academia, and I’ve just gotten a lot of experience around leadership development, things to do with inclusive leadership, and, of course, being able to facilitate. So facilitation is not just about facilitating conversations. It’s also about dialog. It’s also about how to manage, you know, those team meetings. It’s really an art, right? It’a a leadership skill that enables one to really connect. What we know is that in the workplace, one’s ability to connect with staff, to connect with team members, is so vital. It’s what makes people feel connected. It’s what makes people feel that they can do whatever task, or that they have the support they need to excel, and so this is just ome of the things that I teach. And very much excited and looking forward to doing just that, to supporting leaders in different sectors and different fields.
Lorraine Venables 32:53
I’m really looking forward to hopefully utilizing your professional expertise and collaborating further with you as I think that your advice is needed in many areas, and I’m looking forward to amplifying your voice.
Amara 33:07
Aw that’s very kind of you. Lorraine, thank you so much. I look forward to, yeah, continuing the conversation, and, of course, collaborating with you in the future. If anybody would like to follow me, they can follow me on LinkedIn or I have a YouTube channel called Inclusive Workplaces with Amara. So that’s another way people can connect with me, or on Instagram, FacilitateLikeAPro is also my channel. So yeah, I look forward to connecting. Let the experience continue, this beautiful experience that we’re having, like this way of engaging with different people and learning from one another. And I’m just really, yeah, enjoying this, this space, this time in my life. Yeah, very happy.
Lorraine Venables 33:50
Thank you so much. You were amazing!